Thursday, 14 January 2010

Re: Christian Arabs never use Allah only All?h al-?Ab ( ???? ????, "God the Father")

On Jan 13, 1:33 pm, teacup <> wrote:
> بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ
> salaam,
> I want to respond to your answer:
> I see. If so, how about arabic speaking jews and christians?
> the message in QS 10:68 it is: "dont say that Allah has a son."
> if u are right, i.e., if the arabic speaking jews and christian never
> use the word "Allah" as God, then, IMHO, that ayat QS 10:68 would be

Arabic Jews and Christians will never use Allah as a translation of
Allah is just a name of one of the many Arabic gods.

> pointless, because it means they (Jews n christian) have never say
> that "Allah" has a son, but "god" or "YWHH" has a son, right?

How can Christians use the name Allah for God when this is used by
Muslims and Pagans?
When Muslim and Pagan arabs use ILA as a translation for GOD, why on
earth should Christians use the name of a
GOD, Allah, as a translation for GOD. It is just ridiculous and
grammatically incorrect.

Othman is a name, but I am human. You don't start calling humans with
This is ridiculous in logic and grammar.

> let me give you a copy:
> قَالُواْ اتَّخَذَ اللّهُ وَلَدًا سُبْحَانَهُ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ لَهُ مَا
> فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ إِنْ عِندَكُم مِّن سُلْطَانٍ
> بِهَذَا أَتقُولُونَ عَلَى اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
> QS 10:68 They (Jews, Christians and pagans) say: "Allâh has begotten a
> son (children)." Glory is to Him! He is Rich (Free of all needs). His
> is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. No warrant
> you have for this. Do you say against Allâh what you know not.
> if you say that Allah is only muslim's god, then which muslim says,
> "Allâh has begotten a son (children)"
> and when does the arabic speaking christian and jews saya: "the
> muslim's God has begotten a son" ?
> No, (as far as I know) it was the Christians (some of them) who says
> "Allâh has begotten a son" i.e. Jesus (Isa)

The translation is utter incorrect. Jews will never say God has a son.

Since Christiany is older than Islam, why should Christians use the
word Allah that is
also used by Pagan Arabs? It does not make sense.
The only logical explanation is that the Christians are mocking
Muslims by saying that
the Muslim God, i.e. Allah, should have a son.

If Christians will never lower themselves to the level of the Pagan
Arabs. But based on the English translation of the
bible, the correct terms are father and holy spirit, which is what is
being used by Arabic christians, but by attaching the word "Allah",
the name of a chief god in Arabic, but tied with adjectives to
indicate the right god mentioned, i.e. Allah-the father, Allah-the
holy spirit.

Even this attachment of Allah should be a recent development. If the
English and other bible translations, see no need to attach other
names to "father" and "holy spirit", why should Arabic speaking
christian priests, sense the need to add names of Gods to "father" and
"holy spirit".

The only explanation for Christian Arabs and now Malay arabs to attach
the word Allah, and even pretend that it is a translation for God,
which even Muslims don't use, i.e. Allah is just a name of God, not a
translation of God itself.

It may be strange to Christians that since, Allah is the only God to
Muslims, that they should separate the two words together, but this is
done by Muslims. In fact stated over and over again more than 5 times
a day. "No God but Allah".

Now, the Christians pretend that the translation for God is Allah, for
them! Which is against Arabic grammar and tradition itself.

The only logical explanation is that Christians want to make people
believe that their god is exactly the same as the Muslim God, that has
become the majority in their surroundings. In this way they can
propagate their religion to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

It is not surprising indeed because the technique used by Christians
is that they emphasize LOVE and understanding among humans beings.
They claim that Islam and other religions lack these characteristics
and emphasize that Islam is violent etc. Christianity emphsizes FAITH
over LOGIC.

So it is not surprising that they will distract Muslims and non-
Muslims, into believing that Allah is also the God of Christians, so
changing from Islam to Christianity does not affect the believe in
God, and yet get the advantage of LOVE and other calming effects.
Similarly for non-Muslims.

This is becoming more true as Muslims don't even understand Islam, let
alone true Christianity. They view religion as a convenience.

> and the Jews (some of them) are the ones who says, "Allâh has begotten
> a son" i.e. Ezra (Uzair)" and "God has sons who liked the daughters of
> men (Genesis, Old Testament"

This is a translation of the old testament, not the Jewish belief.
> clearly, they are referring the word "Allah" for God.
> perhaps you might say: "that ayat doesn't clearly states it was the
> Jews, Christians, and Pagans."
> still, you want to say that arabicspeaking Christians and Jews don't
> use the word "Allah" for "God"?
> or that "Allah" is not a arabic word for "the God"
> now let's see this next ayat:
> وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ عُزَيْرٌ ابْنُ اللّهِ وَقَالَتْ النَّصَارَى
> الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ اللّهِ ذَلِكَ قَوْلُهُم بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ يُضَاهِؤُونَ
> قَوْلَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِن قَبْلُ قَاتَلَهُمُ اللّهُ أَنَّى
> يُؤْفَكُونَ
> QS 9:30 And the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the
> Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allâh. That is their saying with
> their mouths, resembling the saying of the those who disbelieved
> aforetime. Allâh's Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from
> the truth!
> the arabic and the translations clearly says:
> "the Jews say that Uzair is the son of Allâh"
> "the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allâh"
> "That is their saying with their mouths"
> clearly that is their SAYing with their MOUTHs
> there is no god but the God
> laa ilaha illallah
laa ilaha ill allah
ILA and ALLAH are very different words. How can they mean the same???

The phrase was written in the Quran. This is a Muslim view of the the
god, Allah.
The JEWS and Christians SAID to Muslims, not saying to themselves.
This is very different perspective entirely.

That is what the Christians say to Muslims but Islam didn't come
earlier than Christianity, and Allah is refered by Arab
pagans as one of their Gods. So it is natural that in their books,
they don't translate God into Allah, and the names of their gods are
not Allah.

Just as in those days, now, when they are in the minority, they claim
that the Muslim god is also their God, in order to confuse Muslims,
they even misinterpret the word God into Allah.

But Christians don't translate God into Allah(name) or other names of
god, it when they are the majority, such as in Europe. Which is
blatantly hypocritical indeed. They translate God into God, father
(name) to father, holy spirit(name) to holy spirit.
that is what the Arab christians do, but mischievously attaching the
word Allah in order not to be too obvious.
But not the case for the Malay translation of the bible.

god is translated into Allah instead of the correct translation in
Malay of TUHAN or DEWA or DEWATA

father is translated into Allah also. Not sure about this, but if this
is done, it is preposterous indeed.

How can Christains be allowed to translate GOD into Allah, when even
Muslim Malays don't?

When we refer to the gods of other religion, we use the term Tuhan,
not Allah.
God of Buddihsts. Tuhan orang Buddha. Certainly not Allah orang
God of Hindus. Tuhan orang Hindu. Certainl not Allah orang Hindu.
God of Christians. Tuhan orang Keristian. Certainly not Allah orang

Even Malays, when they become converted to Islam will say in Malay

"tiada TUHAN melainkan ALLAH."
We also use it to remind ourselves in Malay despite the more than 5
times of saying it Arabic,
La ILA ha ill ALLAH.

This is nonsense of the highest kind.

What makes it worse is that these Christians are not Malay-native
speakers. They have their own languages.
To pretent that they have a right over a language that they only
adopt, is just nonsense.

It is just like Malaysian demanding in England, the right to change
the word GOD to ALLAH!!!
With the English allow it? Of course not, despite all the freedom of
speeches that you can forward.

> it is Allah/the God who created all men of all religion, so why must
> there be "our god", "your god" ? how many creator are there, huh?

If it is true that the accept the Allah as in Islam, that is correct.
This is not correct. They translate their God to mean Allah, confusing
people with the Muslim god.

God is God, but the name of God cannot be translated into God.
Just damn dishonest and incorrect in grammar and logic.
Do you want to read phrases that is full of grammatical errors?
Of course you don't because it is confusing.
So the whole idea of mistranslating into bad grammar is to confuse

> just doing my part of QS 103:3: إِلَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا
> الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ
> wassalamualaikum wrwb.
> On Jan 11, 11:53 pm, "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad"
> <> wrote:
> > On Jan 11, 6:39 pm, teacup <> wrote:
> > > On Jan 9, 5:35 pm, "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj. Ahmad" <>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Wikipedia is not completely reliable. There is a word for god in
> > > > Arabaic and that is not Allah.
> > > > Allah is just one of the many gods. The correct word for god is Ila.
> > > Assalamualaikum WRWB.
> > > I want to ask something. According to QS 10:68, what does the pre-
> > > Islamic Jews and Nashara called their god? ila? or Allah?
> > Jews have their own language and don't use Allah,
> > In Judaism, God (written "G-d" for religious reasons by many people)
> > is known by many names. The most important of these names is the
> > Tetragrammaton, or "Four-lettered word": YHVH, YHWH, or י - ה וה. Jews
> > are not allowed to say this name, and instead say Adonai. Even Adonai
> > is only used by some Jews in prayer. Most Jews would refer to God as
> > Hashem, or "The Name". Jews are not allowed to erase the
> > Tetragrammaton, so they rarely write it down outside of their most
> > holy books, such as the Torah.
> > Other names include Elohim, El, Shaddai, Tzeva-ot, 'Elyon, and Ehyeh-
> > Asher-Ehyeh which are respectively pronounced by observant Jews as
> > Elokim, Kayl, Shakkai, Tzeva-Kot.
> > Certain names, such as Shalom, are pronounced as written, but when
> > written one letter, in this case the last letter, is omitted. The last
> > of the above "other" list is often said as Ek-yeh Asher Ek-yeh.
> > > And what does it meant? "don't use the word 'Allah' " OR "don't say
> > > that Allah has a son"?
> > > Please enlighten me.
> > Muslim God has no son. And Muslims call their God, Allah. If you say
> > "Allah has a son", you are insulting the Muslims, because Muslims
> > believe that God has no son.
> > > Salaam.

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