Thursday, 31 December 2009

Re: Malaysia's court ruling: Allah is not exclusive to Islam

On Dec 31, 9:43 pm, Paul Saccani <> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 04:55:56 -0800 (PST), "Ir. Hj. Othman bin Hj.
> Ahmad" <> wrote:
> >Even in Indonesia, where Allah is used sporadically in the translation
> >of the Bible, its use is discrete and are not meant to mislead, unlike
> >in Malaysia.
> >Allah is substituted for Jesus when it should be just god.
> Actually, it isn't.

Because you are completely arrogant and ignorant.

> >The bible
> >never uses the word Allah as a translation to God. Allah is not a
> >Malay word for God. The Malay word for God is Tuhan.
> >In Malay, Allah is meant to be the God of Muslims.
> Which in Islamic theology is the God of Abraham and Jesus - the self
> same God.

That is the god in Islamic theology, but certainly not the Christian
In Christianity, Jesus is himself the God, which is completely
nonsense in the Malay meaning of the word

Prehistoric Arab may have used the word Allah to refer to one
particular god, but Muslim Arabs have redefined the meaning of Allah
to be the one god, according to the Islamic theology.

There is no such confusion in Malay. Allah in Malay is the one god
according to the Islamic theology. There is no pre-Islamic Malay word
for Allah, let alone to describe a deity. Only tuhan(supreme god) or
dewa-dewa. So Allah in Malay is the God as defined in Islamic
theology, not any god or deity.

> > Since the bible is
> >to be translated to Malaysian Malay, it must be translated according
> >to the normal rules of translation, not to mislead the readers.
> As the bible is a sacred text to Muslims, that is hardly going to
> happen, is it?

What are you trying to imply? You must be abosolutely lying if you
think Muslims consider the current translated bible as SACRED.

Malay muslims respect the translated quran in similar manner to
translated bible, i.e. with cautions. Malay muslims only respect the
original quran in Arabic words despite not understanding many Arabic

This is similar to most Muslims all over the world, even Arabs who may
not completely understand the Arabic words and phrases used in the

Any quran, that is to be translated to modern Arabic will never be
And you expect Muslims to respect the current Bibles in various
translated forms and consider them as sacred?
You are a complete moron.

> >Why on Earth should Christians in Malaysia want to use the word Allah
> >to describe God when the correct translation is Tuhan? Unless it is
> >attempting to mislead readers to consider that that Jesus is also the
> >god of the Malays, which is completely nonsense.
> Well, you see, there was fellow called Muhammad, and his message was
> that the God of the Christians and the God of the Jews was called
> Allah.

So what you are saying is that Jesus is also the Allah of the Muslims?
Bloody misleading arrogant bastard.

Unless it is the bible of some cultish Christianity that thrive in
Indonesia but this is frowned upon by mainstream Christianity.

I have to agree that these christianity cults who abandon the trinity
concept, and returning to true monotheism, should be allowed to use
the word Allah, but certainly not the bible used by Catholics. This is
true even if they don't accept Muhammad as a prophet.

Catholics and almost all protestants that I can name, believe in the
trinity concept where Jesus(son), Father and (Holy Spirit) are three
separate entities of god, to be treated as one.

From Wikipedia, at the top of Google search list:
"Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three
persons in one Godhead.[1] "

To use the word Allah for this "Godhead" is just preposterous. It
implies that Jesus is also Allah, which is alien to the Malays.

> Some people heeded his message, and today they are called muslims.

You do not understand Islam at all. No wonder you are not a Muslim.
If you accept the true Malay meaning of Allah, I am sure muslims will
call you a Muslim, despite you denying Muhamamd. Got it!!! You don't
have to be a follower of Muhamamd to be called a Muslim, in Islam.

Alas, you and the christians in Malaysia, want to mislead Malays, into
thinking that the trinity, i.e. Jesus, is compatible with the Malay's
Allah, instead of just Tuhan.

If you do not consider this as misleading, you just an arrogant

> Perhaps you could find someone who knows something about Islam to
> explain this to you?

So you think you know more about Islam than I do? That you don't need
anybody who knows anything about Islam to explain Islamic fundamentals
to you?

> >Just because Allah is not exclusive to Islam, does not mean that it
> >can be used without any just cause. Just because Koran is not
> >exclusive to Islam, does not mean that it can be used to translate the
> >word "Bible"  into Koran in Malay. This is what it amounts to.
> A reasonably educated Muslim should know better than this.

Yes, but you certainly isn't.

> >If the Christians want to translate the Bible to Malay, then use
> >proper Malay words and grammar. Usually poor Malay grammar and words
> >is an insult to the language and customs of the Malays and Muslims.
> >Use the correct word for God, i.e. Tuhan!!!
> That would be offensive to anyone who accepts that Muhammad was the
> messenger of God.

So you think Malays don't pray to "Tuhan"? Idiot bastard.
In fact, Malays pray to "Tuhan", not to Allah. Just read a few
prayers written in Malay for you to find out.
Allah is treated more like a name of a god, not the god entity itself.

Even Arabs use the word Ila, for God, not allah, and all muslims must
know how to distinguish between these two words, if not they are not

Read the most important phrase in Islam: "La Ila ha ill allah"

Translated into English : No god except Allah.
Malay: Tiada Tuhan melainkan Allah.

Now tell me how can Christians in Malaysia be allowed to use the word
Allah for God when even Muslims use the word Tuhan to refer to God??

Unless they are trying to mislead the Malays about the trinity message
of Christianity.
Any honest person should be able to answer but you certainly are not

> --
> Cheers
> Paul Saccani
> Perth, Western Australia.

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